Forum Etiquette
Hi everyone,
I'm posting this here as I'm predicting that interest in learning technologies correlates with experience in using forums, etc. When setting up discussion groups for learners what advice do you give and what rules do you set concerning etiquette?
And what advice would you extend to users of this forum?!
I noticed for example that there is a higher ratio of Introductions-Posts in this part of the forum than in (all?) the others (and accordingly, I apologize for not having introduced myself yet!).
What are common causes of communication breakdown in forums and how can we avoid them?
Cheers,
Alex.
BTW... Working in Japanese universities, where, you might be surprised to hear, chalk is more common than IWB!
Hi Heather,
Thank you for all that advice! I suppose as forums are still a fairly new form of communication the rules haven't settled yet. I find it interesting to see the different styles of posts - some with lots of short, interactive posts, and others reading like essays.
I find it quite daunting to start a thread because it feels like shouting into the darkness and hoping someone will switch on a light! (And so, thanks for switching on the light!).
Cheers,
Alex.
I think Heather hit the nail on the head there - certainly how I feel about moderating forums. It's often tricky to know exactly what and when to 'moderate'. I think an open forum like this operates under slightly different rules to a course forum. Here people can come and go as they please so discussions might stop and start abruptly. When I am working on courses, I feel that course participants expect the moderator to do more and respond to more postings etc.
Shaun
Alex
The psychology of forums fascinates me! If I had to do a dissertation on anything ET-related it'd probably be my first choice of topic!
If there's any tracking on this site it'll show I've read a huge quantity of posts, but it's not necessarily to learn about the topic, it's my interest in interactions which motivates it.
What triggered this person to get mad?
Should someone have taken offence?
Why did extracting this topic bomb?
Why did that person post and never (seemingly) return?
Why has someone posted the same q on 4 forums?
What did the moderator say which killed that thread?
Etc...
I don't think any of its necessarily generalisable!
I also don't think forums are a new way of communication as you mentioned. I actually think they are becoming out-dated and could be replaced maybe by Twitter.
What does anyone else think?
Heather
Hi Heather,
The dynamics of asynchronous communication are fascinating - so much of the immediate context from which we are posting is invisible.
Hopefully, forums will not be replaced by Twitter. Your posting was 849 characters - do you think you could trim it to 140 characters and maintain the same level of meaning? I suppose you could have posted it as 7 separate tweets but surely one message is more readable than seven fragmented ones.
Best,
Pete
Hi Heather
You have expressed a very interesting viewpoint - that of the amazing interaction that goes on in forums such as the ones here at IATEFL Online. I wonder if you are right that Twitter will soon become the new open forum of choice. Looking through my twitter stream today, I felt that I was with the tweeters in the talks that they were attending. Being able to provide succinct summaries of key points is a true art and when you are on the move or busy at work with limited time, then these great "titbits" so to speak, provide a fantastic source of information.
As for knowing about how to moderate such a forum, as this is my first time, I guess I am observing how seasoned moderators are doing it. So I'm learning by observing. I like to read the comments and I join in when I can. Thank you for starting the ball rolling on a fascinating topic!
Janet
Hello again,
Pete, you made me laugh - for a project I was doing, I signed up to the Shipping Forecast in Twitter - and it came in area by area with each one in a separate tweet!
I think what I meant about forums maybe dying or the concept moving to a different platform was what I have noticed with some groups I participate in - I often wonder if in themed groups, we have said it all, or perhaps the main drivers move into a different realm and don't get replaced so the momentum is lost?
I see forums/discussion groups as the easiest way for large groups of people to communicate - they are easy to set up and easy to join and use and you don't need to create a profile or a page, you can just type your idea and reply. This could mean they continue to be popular, or that as people learn and use new tools, the 'old standard' gets abandoned. Are forums a kind of Lowest Common Denominator?
Heather
Hi Heather
Until someone comes up with Tw which only allows messages of 26 characters, Twitter is pretty much as low as you can get. As I've said elsewhere, 140 character soundbites do not make for meaningful discussion in which ideas get linked together; perhaps that doesn't matter, but I find it all a bit shallow.
I've been involved in quite a few discussion forums over the years, and I think you are right that momentum gets lost. Part of the reason may be the endless proliferation of groups, nings, discussion boards, twitter and so on. While I now have far more channels I contribute far less than I did in the past - I just don't have time.
Pete
This is an interesting thread and I too have reservations about Twitter - it was a point that came up in the LT SIG Preconference Event - does Twitter teach you to summarise (as in you learn what does or does not 'work') or do you have to be pretty good at it to start with to contribute meaningfully? If the latter then is it fair to ask students to use this as a way to communicate? At least in a forum discussion, those who need to use more words are allowed to!
I'm not sure if this is any help, but a technique for kicking a new forum off with a new group of people (eg a module discussion forum) that works for me is to ask everyone to introduce themselves in a new thread with three facts, but one is a lie. The rest have to reply to that thread with their guesses and reasons as to the lie. It helps teach thread awareness and is just harmless phatic fun - no need for deep thinking or academic vocabulary. It does however make the forum a fun place to go and achieves Gilly Salmon's 'socialising' stage. When I started initiating this, forum activity soared in my modules - although because the students could also be f2f they did not engage as deeply as they might have in a truly distance learning context. It was always fun fooling the students with my 'lie'!
Cheers (back at work after one of the best IATEFL conferences yet!)
Tilly
Hi Tilly,
You know that idea of the lie is amazing. After having been introduced to it by you, I applied it to one of my b-learning classes and it really worked wonders. My students were A1 level but the curiosity got the better of them and they just gave it a try. Needless to say, they lost some of their inhibitions about making mistakes and it helped create a community. Thanks for your help on that one Tilly. :-)
Am also back to the work in the library and my data analysis... and also really enjoyed IATEFL.;-)
Take care all,
Jane
Hello again,
I had accidental, coincidental enlightening experience this evening vis a vis Twitter. I have a Twitter account but haven't really used it, but a friend locally is kind of being my mentor with it and encouraging me to try - so, I downloaded Tweetdeck today and suddenly found myself in the middle of an incredibly active, spontaneous discussion about managers and teaching on #edchat - it's regular event every Tuesday at I guess 4 or 4.30pm GMT. It was amazing - the 140 character comments were flying back n forth and I found I was dying to jump in! There was a moderator and at the end everyone sent kudos to each other etc. Quite an eyeopener. Will try and be there and ready with all the necessary skills next week! Join me?
The other thing which Pete's repeated mention of the 140 character limit suddenly made me realise is that although that might be limiting to our discussions, it might benefit my students ... My sts have to post to a discussion board on some set topics and often they have no idea what to say or how to say it - and they also have to post replies, which often consist of 'I am agree' and little else. For these guys, maybe an initial target of 140 characters - say 20-25 words would be good and motivating. It'd give them a goal and a limit, and I could challenge them to use as many of the 140 as possible, like a competition. Then later once they'd mastered 140, we could move to a longer answer online. So, that's my plan for tomorrow!
Tilly, I like your idea of the ice-breaker for students - not sure about on a big list of adults with tons of intro messages flying into their email! But that hits another problem with discussion boards - the settings - separate messages, a daily digest or check online - and the choices made can make or break the discussion board.
Best wishes,
Heather
Hi all,
Like Heather I recently discovered the #edchat Tuesday tweet up. If you are new two twitter simply search for #edchat and you'll find the posts.
There were a number of talks at Harrogate this year on the use of Twitter, if you want ideas of how to use it with students go check out Petra Pointer's excellent talk on it , which can be found on youtube http://ow.ly/1xf1I
Shaun
Thanks for the link. It was a great presentation and a really professionally produced video in 4 parts.
Petra seems to be saying, among other things, that the advantages of Twitter over other social media is the 'openness' of Twitter in that you are not restricted to discussing issues with people you already know (in your class) but can broaden out the discussion to include interested 'outsiders', which isn't normally possible on discussion forums.
Hi Shaun,
Thanks for the link to Petra's talk - who videoed it? Good that there are so many 'second chances' nowadays to catch stuff you missed. (22 concurrent sessions is TOO MANY to choose from!) Tilly
Hi all
Some great tips here. Thanks! I like the idea of introducing 3 things about yourself, one being false as a forum activity. I usually do this with my f2f students as an introductory icebreaker and also done it via Xtranormal, which is great fun. Will try this idea next time if I'm asked to do co-moderating again :)
Best
Janet
Hello
I've set up a couple of discussion groups and also moderated here in the past, so I'll start the ball rolling here.
Not sure what you mean exactly by 'communication breakdown' but I'll try it from a couple of angles ...
1. People not posting/responding - they aren't interested; don't want to put themselves 'out there' for whatever reason (like is my boss reading this, or I don't want to sound stupid to the world, or I need to think about this and then they come back and someone else has posted and the moment is lost, or lack of confidence, or maybe even insecurity with the language ...); haven't got time; want to read/lurk and learn, not jump in (personality types maybe); not sure where to put their question; don't think the other people sound friendly; don't want to be located by past colleagues ... the list goes on
2. Communication breakdown - I think one of the main problems is 'the written word' - it is oh so easy to be misunderstood especially if, however fluent your mastery is, you make an odd choice of word - or use the wrong register; it easy to be misunderstood even as a first language speaker - everyone has their own idiolect; then others may not have your sense of humour; some threads just peter out; not explaining your context is another problem - posters need to say a bit about their teaching situation in order to justify, clarify and contextualise comments; sometimes a thread goes very academic or conversely too chatty; or there is great deviation from the original topic; or threads get too long; or become a dialogue between just two people; or it all gets very cliquey...
As a moderator it's difficult to decide if you should get threads back on topic, or extract a topic and start a new thread, or butt in or stay quiet; do you stamp your personality and views on the forum; do you preach to someone you think has misunderstood; do you stir things up or let topics chug along, are you supposed to have the answers or just push things along; and how do you deal with questions unrelated to your forum or bolts from the absolute blue that materialise as a new thread and totally mystify you...
Enough already!
As for forums for learners - if they all know each other (and hopefully are friends) - well, I'm just happy they post anything and if they want to joke a bit and insult each other so long as it's not malicious and they eventually get back on topic with no hard feelings - that's OK with me. But possibly they should create their own rules of etiquette.
Heather