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Themes and issues
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Mon, 03/09/2009 - 23:18
What do you feel are the most interesting themes and issues within Teacher Development that you think the IATEFL conference should be exploring and addressing?
Sat, 03/14/2009 - 13:20
#2
Hi Bruno Cesar,
I'm visiting from the EAP forum where I'm a moderator and I'm really interested in your posting about changing teachers' beliefs and principles. I think it is a very difficult - perhaps impossible - task. I'll give you an example of how I tried to change myself once.
I have a colleague whose work I really admire. We have written a lot of distance learning materials and taught together over many years. Once we decided to observe each other's classes and as it happened we were teaching the same materials to our respective classes. I observed that she had a very calm measured teaching style, whereas mine is a lot more 'boisterous'. Subsequently, I decided to try to teach my class in the way that she did - very calm and low key. It worked and the students quite liked the change but I didn't feel so committed to the class or the teaching in this new low key role - it just wasn't 'me'.
Maybe that's what we are asking of teachers when we suggest they change beliefs and principles - to change who they are. Is this really fair do you think?
Olwyn
Fri, 03/13/2009 - 12:52
#3
How to become a teacher trainer?
Mon, 03/16/2009 - 00:07
#4
Hi Olwyn Alexander !
Thanks for answering my post. I agree with you that it's not fair to ask someone to change. It sounds like you're forcing someone to leave behind all his past experiences and the knowledge he's gained over the years. Maybe the verb to change has a negative connotation in this context. To the contrary, someone's experience and expertise play an important role in the decision-making process of what seems to be feasible or not in terms of pedagogy and language teaching. What I was trying to say is that the more knowledge we acquire about our practice the more naturally we evolve, and that doesn't mean we've lost our personal/professional identities. I think there are too many professionals who think they know it all and there's nothing left to learn - especially native speakers of English who think they're always ahead of us and therefore being a native they know much more about the language than us non-natives. Of course I'm making generalizations here, but have you ever thought about it?
Cheers!
BC
Tue, 03/17/2009 - 10:26
#5
I'm interested in what you have to say about native / non-native speaker teachers, Bruno. In my experience, teachers who have English as their 2nd/3rd/4th language know MUCH more about language than new native speaker teachers. Sure, as a native speaker we can immediately sya what is right and what is wrong - but as a new teacher, we probably can't always say why! I am working as a teaching practice tutor on a CELTA at the moment, and we have a mix of native and non-native speaker trainess. The non-native speakers are much more comfortable and confident with the language analysis aspect, but often tend to deliver very teacher-led classes. The native speaker teachers are suffering a lot when it comes to language analysis, because this is something Uk children at least are not taught in schools. Thinking that you know more than anyone else is, I hope, more a question of disposition than of nationality!
Mon, 03/30/2009 - 19:55
#6
Dear Olwyn and Bruno
It saddens me as a native speaker EFL teacher that we native speakers have this rather negative image in the world of teaching English. Indeed it is true that as school-goers, native English speakers are not taught grammar per se. But I am going to make an analogy - people who want to be doctors, are not taught about the body and all its systems and organs at school. But if they wish to become doctors, they go to university and learn all about the body its systems and organs. People who wish to become EFL teachers go off to a CELTA course and learn almost nothing about grammar. I have been an EFL teacher and Academic Manager for 20 years and the number of CELTA qualified teachers I have interviewed who STILL know VERY LITTLE about grammar is astonishing. But that is not the fault of the newly -qualified teacher; the fault is squarely placed at the feet of the CELTA trainer and the thoroughness or lack thereof of the CELTA syllabus delivered. A qualified CELTA teacher who thinks, "We had a good time" is a Past Perfect, is a sad product of the course and trainer she had, NOT an ignorant native speaker. Why it isn't a Past Perfect is not some instinctive native speaker knowledge - it needs to be highlighted and TAUGHT by the professionals that she has paid to give her that knowledge!
Having said all that, however in my view, too much meta- language in an EFL class is a BAD thing. It is unnecessary and can lead to that feeling of "He knows more than ,me because he knows all these big fancy words". We are teaching people to speak the language after all, not to speak ABOUT the language. And if someone can tell me why we say, "I have a lot of time", rather than, "I have much time" let me know. Is it perhaps because it is just what we say?
Candy
Sun, 04/19/2009 - 08:38
#7
Hi Candy:
For the most part, I agree with you. However, I don't sympathize with you. My personal point of view is that I never complain about stupid people (I use the term stupid as a measure of how much a person has learned and the term intelligent as a measure of one's ability to learn. So, for me, someone who graduates from the CELTA program you described is stupid/ignorant, but then, we're all stupid about something); they have a mission in life. Their purpose is to make me look good, and they do a very good job of it. If not for them, people might start looking at me and thinking that I am stupid. The world is, after all, relational in nature. On the other hand, I don't want them getting under foot. Finally, I wouldn't suggest feeling too sorry for them or their students. In China, such individuals are hired to "teach" oral English; i.e., listening to students speaking English and telling them when they make a mistake (they are never, never hired to teach grammar; the Chinese teachers teach grammar). Any high school drop-out, native speaker of English tourist can do that job. For that reason, they do not have the respect of the Chinese teachers who teach English, but if they "teach" oral English for 40 classroom hours a week, they will make more money that a foreign expert who is a full professor teaching English at a Chinese university, not to mention the Chinese national with a master's degree in teaching English who is teaching English at the university level. They are also a cheap source of native-speaker feedback - they get paid less on an hourly basis and are, generally speaking, provided with small accommadations. So, it seems to be a win-win situation: the native-speaker of English tourist has a job; the school has a cheap source of native-speakers of English; the students, who are learning English from their Chinese teachers, have a native-speaker of English available to give them feedback on their oral English, I never get asked to "teach" oral English, and the CELTA graduate is laughing all the way to the bank. Yes, life is good!
Dan Jenkins (Foreign Expert, English Department, China University of Mining and Technology, Beijing, China)
Mon, 03/16/2009 - 08:38
#8
Dear Olwyn and Bruno,
It's interesting reading your posts about teachers' belief and principles. I think whether we put it changing or evolving, it means that teachers are always in the mood to adopt better values that he or she come to realize. And that is the beauty of any profession, not only teaching, I guess.
In my country, although teachers are always respected by other people, sometimes, some (not many) teachers are attempted to do things against accepted values. For example, a teacher once asked a female student to sleep with him to get good scores for her dissertation. This is beyond the crime framework defined by the teaching association until now and people were shocked to learn about that. This leads us to the question of fortifying positive values in each teacher nowadays. Isn't that neccesary to train teachers to hold fast to good values?
Mon, 03/16/2009 - 09:07
#9
Hi Huy and Bruno Cesar,
You've highlighted some important ideas:I like the idea of evolution rather than change - which does seem too abrupt somehow - and I do agree that thinking of teaching in terms of values is a useful way of getting at teacher's beliefs and principles.
I agree absolutely with the point that 'there are too many professionals who think they know it all and there's nothing left to learn - especially native speakers of English who think they're always ahead of us and therefore being a native they know much more about the language than us' At the last IATEFL conference (my first one) I was struck by the wealth of amazing research and innovation that was being presented by people from the so-called 'periphery'. People who already speak English don't always have the insights into what makes it difficult to learn and to use, especially in contexts like mine (EAP).
I've got interested in the concept of 'expertise' in relation to good teaching and how we can recognise an expert. Are there any generic traits that any expert posesses?
What do you think?
Olwyn
Mon, 03/16/2009 - 09:46
#10
I guess we now come back to motivation, Olwyn.
A motivated and enthusiastic teacher is always willing to somehow keep himslef up-to-date with current studies. Maybe those who excell at their practice are much more than theorists or researchers who have never stepped into a language classroom. I think that could be a good parameter for evaluation, don't you think? I agree there's no way to teach based on a vaccum; in other words, theoretical findings are key to improving our practice. However, what happens when they're not "holding hands" ? And when external forces affect our job inside the classroom? When teachers are underpaid and overworked? Is it fair to talk about motivation when we teachers barely have any money to support our families? Is it fair to talk about setting a "safe" (classroom) environment so that our students can improve their language skills teaching in conflic zones? Is it feasible to teach our students basic "values" to live in society when there's a corrupt government in charge of the country? I think all these issues will directly interfere with our personal/professional development.
Looking forward to your comments.
BC
Mon, 03/16/2009 - 10:01
#11
Hi Bruno,
I've never taught in the circumstances you describe - lucky for me - but I can imagine how difficult it must be just to get through the day. People who do manage to teach in such settings must be the true experts because they would have to be extremely sensitive to what they were saying in case their students repeated their words out of context and to inappropriate audiences.
However, I have experienced times when life seemed very difficult and the classroom actually became a refuge from the real world. My classrooms are usually filled with lovely polite and very clever people who are going on to study science and engineering. They value what I have to teach them and see how it will help in their degree studies. When I'm interacting with them I forget about irritating political issues within my institution or personal problems - it's very therapeutic.
I would hate not to be a teacher and miss this aspect.
Olwyn
Tue, 03/17/2009 - 23:42
#12
Wow, I offer a slightly different perspective and have some different questions than have been addressed so far. I really enjoyed reading all your comments by the way, they give me some good things to think about.
I'm a native speaker of English, I've been teaching it for some time, and I've been living and working in Southern Mexico for the past 11 years. I recently joined a group of colleages, all native speakers, some very experienced 30+ years, some much younger, all realatively new to Mexico, to explore "local community awareness" in our department. We've been going at it for a month now, and even after 11 years here and being married into a local family, I'm amazed at how much I've learnt in the last month about the community I live in. I'm anxious to see how this new knowldege will affect my teaching. I'd like hear other's opinions about how much travelling native speaker teacher types should know about their student's worlds and the communities that are hosting them. How does or should this knowledge come into play in the classroom, and what are teachers and their students missing out on when the teacher doesn't know that much about the world the students live in? There are pleanty of ELT texts that will teach the students about England, the US or other English speaking country, but more and more we know for a fact that our students will most likely be using English with other non-native speakers, not with native English speakers.
Wed, 03/18/2009 - 10:43
#13
Hi Meximeli,
Glad to hear you've enjoyed reading our posts. I think the point you've made there also has to do with the topic of Teacher Development (classroom awareness/local culture(s) awareness). As to how much traveling a leaner of a language should do, well, that would be great if every leaner could travel to the countries where the target language is spoken and be fully immersed with the (local) culture(s) they could only read about (through the Internet or coursebooks). Reading about something is quite a lot different from seeing it for yourself. Besides, much of the cultural content we find in coursebooks is either too simplified or offers in a way a prejudiced overgeneralised view of a country's cultural aspects. It's just like saying that every Brazilian loves "feijoada" or that "Samba" runs in their blood. I myself am not fond of feijoada neither do I know how to dance "samba".
Coming back to the previous topic, "How do we know for a fact our students won't be talking to native speakers"? Very few of them may, some won't... We never know ... There's no telling. Doesn't it also have to do with how motivated and enthusiastic my students to learn the language are? I'd say otherwise ... today the Internet has made the world smaller. I see more and more non-native speakers getting in contact (making friends) with natives of a language than 5-10 years ago. Are you familiar with a video-chat program called Paltalk? I'd recommed you see for yourself how amazing it is. It's not like MSN messenger or google talk. There you'll really talk to people from every corner of the world. Anyways, I've always been told that if you want to know about your students' culture or whatever they think about what you've been doing in class... just ask them. Give them the chance to express themselves - sometimes in the target language (if possible) or maybe in their mother tongue - that's when they may feel more comfortable.
What do you think? Looking forward to hearing from you.
Bruno Cesar
Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.
Tue, 04/21/2009 - 18:22
#14
Hi Maureen and Candy,
About native and non- native teachers.
The process of learning of foreign languages is so difficult process.
A non -native speaker learns a language through grammar and lexis,
first clearly define thought and then look for means of expressions
(grammar and lexis),that is why they know more about language aspects
as a non-native speaker teachers than native speaker teachers.Native
speaker teachers know their own language very well without
knowledge of grammar and lexis and they don't want to spend their
time to such "trifles" as grammar and lexis and to different types of
language aspect analyses .
My native language is Kazakh , I speak Kazakh very well, that is why I needn't study
specially the grammar of this language , practically I don't know it .
My second language is Russian, I learnt it without knowledge of grammar ,
because everybody spoke in Russian (former Soviet Union, Russian was an
official language) , I heard this language everyday, everywhere
I was corrected by correct Russian speech of surrounding people,
in brief , I had a language environment.
English is my third language, we have know language environment, that is why
I learn it with the help grammar and lexis.
Best regards,
Fazira
Wed, 04/22/2009 - 12:25
#15
Hi Fazira:
Regarding your comment that "a non-native speaker ... knows more about ... [grammar and lexis] as a non-native speaker teacher than native speaker teachers. Native speaker teachers ... don't want to spend their time ... [learning] grammar and lexis...", in my experience, your comments are absolutely true, if by the term teacher you are referring to art history majors back-packing around Europe "teaching" their native language without burdening themselves with first acquiring the skills necessary to teach a foreign language. I have lost track of the number of times I have heard such individuals claim that they spent the summer "teaching" English in such 'n such a country. Actually, most of them were nothing more than human tape recorders - they were present in the classroom so that the teacher had a native speaker as a resource to model various requested utterances. If the teacher wants the sentence repeated, there is no need to hit the rewind button and waste time searching for the desired utterance. If on the other hand, you are referring to native speakers of English who are the products of a good 4-year BA program in TESL in the United States, then I am compelled to disagree with you.
I would agree that it is not uncommon to find an author who has taken the position that it is possible for a learner of an L2 to master the syntax of the L2 to the level of accuracy of a native speaker, and theoretically speaking, I would not argue with that position. However, I have never met such a learner. This includes graduates of 4-year university degree programs who have earned a BA in English after having studied English for 4 to 6 years prior to entering college. I do not know of even one teacher who claims to have produced a student with native speaker level accuracy in syntax. It is one thing to say that something is possible and quite another to actually accomplish the deed. I would be greatly surprised to find that a non-native speaking teacher of a language can match the knowledge and expertise of a properly trained native speaking teacher in any of the four language skills (this includes my own students who achieve native-speaker level accuracy in segmentals and suprasegmentals).
You say that "my native language is Kazakh, I speak Kazakh very well, that is why I needn't study specially the grammar of this language, practically I don't know it." However, suppose you did study the syntax of Kazakh with the goal of attaining explicit knowledge of the syntax well enough to explain it. Do you think that a non-native speaker of Kazakh would ever be a match for your knowldge and skill? I am personally of the opinion that any non-native speaker who attempted to accomplish such a feat would die of old age before achieving such a goal.
Another point: do you think that a non-native speaker of Kazakh would ever be able to acquire a vocabulary as extensive as yours? There are at least 800,000 words in the Kazakh language. If I were to learn 10 new words every day, and never forgot a word, it would take me over 200 years to learn them all. Ok, ok, no native speaker of Kazakh knows all the words either. However, using myself as an example, as a result of varied experiences in my life, I know about 250,000 English words (estimates vary, but generally speaking (a) a 5-year old knows about 3,000 - 5,000 words, (b) a high school graduate knows about 60,000, a college graduate knows about 125,000 depending on their major. My vocabulary is as large as it is because of the various fields I have been involved in - home construction, nuclear engineering, civil engineering, ship construction and maintenance, mathematics, economics, business consulting, real estate, etc.). Let's see, 10 words a day, gee, it would take a non-native speaker about 70 years to learn them all (assuming they don't forget any of them). Ok, assume a 125,000 word vocabulary - 35 years, but when am I going to find time to feed the dog? My point is this: when a person decides to learn a foreign language, they have to ask themselves what they intend to do with the language and then focus on the necessary vocabulary, syntax, and so on. There simply isn't enough time in life to learn it all. For example, I don't know the Mandarin words for tile floor, door knob, light switch, ceiling fan, and so on (unfortunately, I do know the word for mosquito, which was definitely not on my list of words to learn). It is also true that I don't want to know. If I need to know, I'll look them up in the dictionary. I only focus on what I need to know in order to accomplish my goal. That includes syntax. I went to the trouble of locating some good resources that discuss the grammar patterns in Mandarin and I studied them, but I can never be sure that those resources contain an exhausive summary of Mandary syntax. Then of course, there is language change. For example, as a result of a native speaker of French sports announcer's use of French syntax while speaking English, I now hear the phrases "team American," "team France," etc. that is not correct American English syntax, but it is now.
Non-native speaking teachers of English frequently ask me questions about syntax. What I have noticed is that their knowledge of English grammar rules is limited to the contents of the grammar books that they teach to their students, which is quite a lot actually, but still no match for the knowledge of a properly trained native speaker. For example, have you ever heard, "throw the cow over the fence some hay"? That is not an uncommon utterance in some parts of the United States. It is also grammatically correct. Or, what about, "That that that that that refers to is incorrect." (and then there is the old, "I saw a saw saw a saw.")
So, I agree with you if you are referring to an untrained individual, but properly trained teachers who are native speakers of the language they teach, and who aren't recluses living in caves? Sorry, no way. I would be very, very surprised to find a teacher who is a non-native speaker of Kazakh with a greater knowledge of the syntax of Kazakh than a properly trained native speaker of Kazakh who teaches Kazakh.
Dan Jenkins (Foreign Expert, English Department, China University of Mining and Technology, Beijing, China)
Wed, 04/22/2009 - 13:36
#16
Hi npeachey:
In respone to your request for ideas that the IATEFL concerence might consider exploring, one issue for me concerns the representation of teacher qualifications. Morley once equated the field of teaching English as a foreign language to a marauding, 13th century, European army: there is the highly dedicated and professionally trained cavalry, supported by foot soldiers of dubious quality, with camp followers bring up the rear (sorry, I don't have the citation with me). So I think it would be helpful if certificate-granting programs stated on the certificate itrself exactly what it is their graduates are actually qualified to do (based on course content and the student's performance; e.g., ride a horse, walk, cook, etc.). Don't misunderstand me: I think there is a place for people of various degrees of expertise. I think that there is a genuine need for native speakers who have no training in how to teach anything at all to just listen to learners speaking an L2 and correct them when they make a mistake. However, their credentials should clearly state their qualifications. For example, I met one person whose claim to fame was having not graduated from just one 10-week ESL traning program, but from two 10-week ESL training programs (What was he thinking? If one is good, then two must be better?). After six months in China, he published a 60-page book on how to teach English as a foreign language. I met him when he brought his book to a job interview with a humble look on his face and the expectation that having published a book entitled him to a job teaching English. His one semester worth of work learning about conducting classroom activities (without ever understanding either the philosophy or theory behind the activities) doesn't even come close to the training received by those who graduate from a 4-year degree program.
Dan Jenkins (Foreign Expert, English Department, China University of Mining and Technology, Beijing, China)
Thu, 04/23/2009 - 02:44
#17
Hi Dan,
I confused two notions: "native and non-native speakers" , " native -non native
speaker teachers",which led to misunderstanding.
I mean the former" native and non native speakers" .I know that to speak
English perfectly I should be born in England .
You are right by saying that it is not impossible to know 100% wordstock of
foreign language , for example I can't support conversation about computer
technology (or other technical fields which I am not familiar ) with the
terminologies of this science even in my own language , because I don't know
this field and after that to say that I know the language which I study as second
language or third language more than native speakers
of these languages , I think it would be stupidity or fantazia from my side .
Is it necessary to know all words of a foreign language if I use only 30 %
of words of my native language , in spite of that I know this language perfectly ,
because it is enough to give and recieve necessary information for me?
Fazira
Personal/professional development
Hello everyone,
I think teachers' beliefs and principles (mind-set) as to language teaching and learning should be addressed. This complex of ideas has always had great influence on what happens inside the classroom. According to Lewis, " Changing a teacher's mind-set is much more than adding a new technique to your repertoire or taking a different view of a particular classroom activity." So, how many of us have changed the way we teach and how have we related to dichotomies such as (product x process), (short-term x long-term aims), ( answers x questions), (explanation x exploration), ( planned certainty x unguided uncertaintity) - just to name a few.
Cheers,
Bruno Cesar
EFL public school teacher - RJ, Brazil.